Aine: Did you see who joined the bbs last night?
Aine: Senior Technical Engineer of Adobe Atmosphere... the guy in charge of Atmosphere
.
BRO: Well first off I want too get your take on some questions about AW.
Aine: here... Ok (not that I have all the answers, but I'll do my best)
BRO: OK here goes http://www.activeworlds.com/products/cancel.asp
BRO: is this saying that if all Citizens don't renew in 30 days their builds will be deleted from AW
Aine: No, it's saying that if you wish to cancel before your current cit expires, you have to fill out that form.
Aine: If you change your mind about canceling within 30 days of filling out that form, no problem.
Aine: If you wait longer than 30 days to change your mind and try to renew your cit, too bad, your stuff is gone.

BRO: So you are reading this, as not all builds will be deleted
Aine: Not until your cit expires and you choose not to renew.
Aine: Or not until 30 days after you cancel your cit. whichever the case may be.
BRO: There is some questions that many of us world owners and city founders have on this issue
BRO:Would it be true of all builds in all AW owned worlds?
Aine: Yes, I think they are talking about deleting builds of anyone in AW-owned worlds who no longer are valid cits. This will occur 30 days after cit expiration or 30 days after filling out the cancellation form
BRO:So all the builds in my city that were done by people who are now gone would be deleted?
Aine: yes that's how I read it, anyway. It doesn't say anything about keeping old builds for archival or museum purposes. Definitely looks like an attempt to pressure people into renewing cites, though

BRO: In Postland we have worked hard to build around old builds and make parks of them to give honor to long time builders now dead or gone. Does this seem fair to you to delete these
Aine: No, it isn't fair. It's business as usual with the AW Corporation, though.
This is their software, those are AW-owned worlds... they can do what they wish with it. AWC *talks* about community, but when you see things like this happening, it doesn't seem very *community-oriented*.
BRO:To be blunt what about it the builds of old PK and GK who lived and died here working for free to help AW their builds will be wiped off like nothing?
Aine: Apparently.
BRO: Well what can people do to make a difference?
Aine: The only thing that will make a difference is to show your dissatisfaction with your checkbook or credit card, since money is their thing. Stop paying AWC your hard earned money!
You will lose your builds, of course, but your message will eventually get through to them.

BRO: Well now can we talk about a few other programs that people might want to think about?
Aine: One other thing citizens can do is to help us find a new home.
We have an excellent bulletin board online called 3D - Three Dimensions
The URL is http://www.dedanaan.com/cgi-bin/3D/YaBB.pl

BRO: I have been looking at http://www.galaxyworlds.com/welcome.htm with www.orbittalk.com
Aine: galaxyworlds uses AW technology, that isn't a viable solution
BRO: People need to have somewhere to go
BRO: GWU says they have the rights to run the AW engine even if AW goes under why is this not a good choice?
Aine: Every universe server using AW technology is tied to the fate of active worlds corporation. Each uniserver sends a signal upon boot-up to the AWC main server, we call this *heartbeat*.
The heartbeat signal is used by AWC to verify valid, paid-up universe servers.
Once a uniserver's signal is received, the AWC server verifies that it is valid, and then sends what I call an OK signal back to the uniserver, and it continues the boot process and begins running.
Aine: Well, AWC has seen fit to change the terms of use whenever it has decided a change was needed. And it has done so without input from the other parties to that contract. I see no reason why they couldn't or would do the same with world owners.
Aine: In fact, AWC already changed the contracts with the world owners by locking tourists out of their worlds... and requiring them to pay $60 per world to get them back... something they thought they already paid for.
BRO: Yes so you would say at the lest AW does not deal fairly with any one
Aine: Correct.

BRO: I have heard some people have tried to go around this heartbeat?
These would be the outlaw universes we hear about .
Aine: Cracked servers will work, but you will get no updated software.
Aine: It's also illegal... and you could be prosecuted for using that software.
BRO: Well it seems then that builders have to find some new way to start over
BRO: The new Programs we are hearing so much about
Give us the pros and cons of those you know
Aine: Well, I can't comment on the specifics of some of the programs because I haven't had a chance to download and test them all myself, but I am doing some testing, and a few other members of our bbs have been asked to alpha and beta test some of these programs.

BRO: Right now what would say the 2 top runners would be with the most promise
Aine: Adobe Atmosphere - I think it is a bit too complicated for new users to jump in there and start building. It also But I think it has great promise for the future. Adobe is listening to user's comments and working on the solutions.
That's one thing I've found with them, they are definitely open to talking to users.
BRO: This would be the same company that has such fine products as Photoshop and Go live? They are big time and have great products.
Aine: Yes, same company.
We have their Senior Technical Engineer on our bulletin boards right now... he's open to our ideas. He's in charge of the Atmosphere program
(Adobe) Michael Kaplan, Senior Engineering Manager, Atmosphere
BRO: Now from my understanding you build off line and then load it up is that right
Aine: Yes right now, atmosphere is strictly an offline builder.

Aine: Another program - Lindenworld - is still in beta. Its main drawback is that it is strictly for broadband users, so those who are on dial-up modems won't be able to use it. This effectively shuts out about 82% of the Internet's users, since that percentage still uses dial-up

BRO: Have you checked out orbit talk? http://www.orbitalk.com/Angel/
Aine: <opening website>
BRO: I used it last weekend with a 32k rate and it was very good voice used it for 2 hours talking
Aine: Last night a bunch of us were using Being-There.org software for voice chat... it's 3D, it's IRC, and it's voice chat
Aine: one of our bbs members is developing this software
BRO: It might be something that would be nice in any new software-building program we have
Aine: well, we have to keep in mind licensing agreements.... if we have too many proprietary systems added into a 3D VR client, we're talking paying licensing fees for those.

BRO: You seem to be getting the best minds in AW involved
Aine: Not only the best minds in AW, but also the best minds in VR today... we're getting some very well known people in VR involved. To be perfectly honest, the success of the bbs has completely taken me by surprise... I never expected it to attract this many high-caliber users, but I'm very pleased it has.

BRO: could you give us a little about how this group got started and some of the founders?
Aine: Well, I don't wish to blow my own horn here, but originally I thought we needed a way to make a concerted effort to reach out to dissatisfied members of AW. Some way to keep in touch with people who were leaving the AW program.
Aine: I also saw a need to make a concerted effort to find alternative programs to AW where they could go... so that they could continue to create.
Aine: I discussed this idea of keeping people together with some of my friends. Artillo formed an AW discussion list at Yahoo, and that worked for a while, but it was too difficult to keep flipping back through all the posts to find links to the programs
Aine: So, I made a message board and began to organize the alternatives we were looking at. And we didn't really advertise it much, other than word of mouth, but people began regis Steller helped me look for alternative programs, and Malka has been instrumental in talking to folks in AW and showing them where the discussion have been talking place.
It's taken off from there and become this really viable resource.

BRO: How many are on the BBS now
Aine: Aine: As of this morning, we have 108 people on the bbs.
And that is in just over a month of operation.
Aine: Yes, we're reaching a core set of users, I think... but also keep in mind that we also have many of the VR developers in the bbs, posting and answering questions about their products.
BRO: Well I can see that not all the BBS people would be from AW but for the most part would you say about 85% are ?
Aine: Yes, 80-85% are AW users or former AW users
BRO: What about Protagonist (The real programmer of AW Ron Britvich)
have we heard from him?
Aine: No, but we're talking to his best friend, Danny. :)
Aine: I'm not sure what sort of involvement Ron Britvich really has, I'm sort of hoping he's watching and helping behind the scenes, though.
BRO: Is there a list of ICQ numbers or something where people can keep in touch just in case the plug gets pulled in AW?
Aine: The bbs has a profile section for users who register where they can add their ICQ number, or make their email public. If anyone wants to reach me, they can email admin@dedanaan.com
BRO: That is a great way to deal with it:.
Aine: Yes, it's always left up to the bbs member on how much of their info they wish to be public, or private. As bbs administrator, I have access to the email addresses, but I don't send out unsolicited email (SPAM) to people who register
BRO: Aine I have noticed a kind of fear in AW to talk about anything negative. Not with you here but with others. So you think that this fear of reprisal may have grounds?
BRO: Does AW give reward those who defend it in news groups and take to court those who say something is wrong?
BRO: Like Eep, I for one now think was he right after all about much he said.
Aine: It's possible their fears may have grounds. Then again, I've noticed a propensity for people to panic whenever changes are made in AW, and rumors spread like wildfire. As for what AWC does behind the scenes, I really don't have any inside info on that. I do know, however, that anyone in AWC who has access to Cit#1 privileges can pretty much do whatever they want in any world, AW-owned or privately owned.
BRO: So it could be a little of both
Aine: Yes.

BRO: I have been trying to find out how many worlds are not renewing when account comes due. Many say they are leaving. How about here?
Aine: I don't think there is any database we can access to find out which worlds will not be renewing. It's difficult to know how many will actually still be here in the coming year as citizenships expire.
BRO: The Postland Post has always said what it thinks and will never bow down to anyone. Just for the record
Aine: :)
Aine: That's gotten me in trouble most of my life... I always say what I think, and I tell the truth... some people don't like hearing the truth.
BRO: IF people will look back at old issues we told about the fake numbers before people could even check it out
Aine: Well, from what I understand, there is a problem in the AW database with registrations...
If you register as a cit, and say, your credit card info doesn't enter properly.... and if this happens three times, each time it happens a new cit number is issued, so it appears that 3-4 people registered, when only one cit number is actually used. They don't reissue old numbers.

BRO: One thing that has been an on going story is the way the stock prices are hiked and dropped and who is making the money
BRO: They also take large lots of numbers too make it like AW is growing when in fact they are no in use .
These things have been going on for years now
Aine: Well, BRO, I can't really comment on that, or their practices with the numbers of users or worlds or even stock prices. I have my own theories, but until I see substantial proof of wrongdoing on their part, it's just speculation.
BRO: When is 3.3 coming out anyway aren't we paying now for something that we don't have
BRO: Well I am not here to bash AW but hope they can see the light before it too late.
Aine: I have no idea when 3.3 are coming out. I notice, however, in the AW newsgroups there doesn't seem to be any beta testing going on. There hasn't been a post there since November. (As of the last time I checked it)
BRO: I think some of 3.3 are out now and that is why we are having some new bugs in AW
BRO: But that is another story
Aine: :)
BRO: I want to thank you for your time and if you know any world owners who would like to talk for the record please have call the Postland Post BRO
BRO: bro@geneband.net
Aine: Let me ask you a question now
BRO: Oh yes, anything you want to talk about.
Aine: What do you think has been the major problem within AWC that has brought them to the situation they now find themselves in with regard to finances, loss of users, and loss of worlds?
BRO: I think it is greed and JP and Rick taking more than putting in
Aine: I think it is two main factors:
Aine: 1- Lack of communications with users and world owners.
Aine: 2- Lack of a viable marketing plan.
BRO: Well I think that owners don't know the market. Joining people like us builders, dreamers, thinkers and people who have no other way to outside world for what ever reason

Aine: World owners are content providers; it is not their main job to do the marketing that is the job of the universe owners.
BRO: They have used the MALL and all those things but really a web site works fine for selling things. AW is about people
Aine: Marketing should encompass the Big Picture perspective. VR companies that intend to make their money off the end user, I think, are making a big mistake. Instead, they should be aiming at corporate users.
Aine: Right, we provide content.
Aine: We provide community.
BRO: And we come up with the money to keep things rolling.
BRO: So those that take home a paycheck from us should listen more
Aine: What other media do you know of where the content providers must pay for the privilege of providing that content? If television (especially cable TV) were run this way, there would be nothing to watch on TV.
BRO: Well Aine like this world much time and love goes into it
Aine: Right, and worlds like this one (! Friends) attract users (or, in my TV analogy - viewers)
BRO: Hard work, it is love that these worlds are made of and you have to pay so much for it. Hmm what you call some who made you pay for love? I will leave that to the reader to define.
Aine: :)
Aine: Some of us are looking at funding VR along the same model that NPR (national public radio) is funded. We think this will be the way to make our community a truly 3D web, which is what we're aiming for.
Aine: The web in 3D.
BRO: There is another issue I would like to ask you about. What about the giving of free worlds that everyone knows will only be there for a while well everyone but new visitors. Oh wait we don't have to worry about that unless you

BRO: you pay to have them come now
Aine: Trial worlds and 3D homepages... they serve a purpose, if only to let people experiment with configuring a world to see if they like it. Other than that, I think they are a waste of time and resources.
BRO: Would it be nice to have a rating system of worlds with stars behind them like movies but I would want cit to do the ratings
Aine: That could become a political thing... I think it promotes elitism and clique-ishness. I wouldn't want to see anything that would lead to divisions within the community.
BRO: Yes I can see that happening about the rating.
BRO: Any hope of some buying out AW and taking a new view of what little AVs really are?
Aine: Well, there is always that hope, but any company that looks at the AW financial data would likely run in the opposite direction and not take the risk, just by looking at the numbers. I'd love to see someone buy AW and turn things around, but I don't think that's very likely to happen.